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Should a man get a say in an abortion?


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#1 Jezebella

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:28 PM

Do you think that the woman should be able to terminate the pregnancy despite the fathers opinion? I personally think that you should care enough about the other person you are involved with enough to involve them in the decision. Ultimately though I think it needs to be the womans choice.



#2 Dreek Lass

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:51 AM

As a woman who has spoken about this topic quite a bit with a lot of other people in the past, I will say that yes, a man should get a say. There is no way from stopping him, but the ultimate choice as to what is going to happen comes down to what the mother wants. She is the one carrying the child, she is the one who is going to die from giving birth if she should die, Her life is the one at stake here. The vaginal tears are also hers to claim, if that also should. I do think that this is unfair of mother nature though, because half of what loves in the woman's stomach belongs to the man, but he has little control over what actually happens to that half.



#3 Epink

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:18 AM

I don't think men should be ignored when it comes to the issue of abortion and I think that every couple that wants to abort should discuss it together. However, I don't believe that men should have the option to force the woman to carry the pregnancy to term if she doesn't want to. And I think that's what many people believe when they say "What about men, can't they have a say in abortion?". Well, in the end it's not their body. Unfair? And is the fact that it's women who have to get pregnant and deal with most of the fallout of that fair?



#4 Draggy

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 08:39 AM

If the father claims paternity and in any way financially supports the abortion he has a say legally.

 

Besides that..why is this enlightened age are you people not using birth control?  Abortion should be such a dead issue. 



#5 Kementarri

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:20 PM

I do believe that the man should get a say in whether the baby is aborted or not, however his say should not be the end of the conversation. Ultimately it is up to the women and what her decision is based on her body and what she wants. To be honest, she has to deal with the pain, and the stretch marks, and the breast feeding, not to mention any complications that may come along with the pregnancy. So, yes the man should get a say, and should offer his advice, but it will always be the women's decision, as it is her body that she must take care of first and foremost.



#6 Dreek Lass

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:22 AM

I don't think men should be ignored when it comes to the issue of abortion and I think that every couple that wants to abort should discuss it together. However, I don't believe that men should have the option to force the woman to carry the pregnancy to term if she doesn't want to. And I think that's what many people believe when they say "What about men, can't they have a say in abortion?". Well, in the end it's not their body. Unfair? And is the fact that it's women who have to get pregnant and deal with most of the fallout of that fair?

 

Well yes, this is true. But there is only so much communication that can happen before the man becomes ignored in he situation, as the baby is living inside of the woman. I mean, what if the man was resolute that he wanted the baby, and the woman was adamant that she did not want the baby, and no matter how much communication both of them sat down and had, they still stuck to their guns on it., Then eventually it would have to be down to the woman because she is the one with the baby inside of her, and she is the one with the choice to make ultimately. I am not saying that it is right, but that is just the ways that is. 

 

Also, I have spoken to other people about this before where a woman has gotten pregnant and  the father says that they should keep it, even though the woman was reluctant. Then when the baby arrives, the father sticks around for the first couple of years, and then leaves. Who has to pick up the pieces whilst raising the baby that she initially did not want? The mother.



#7 Rebel

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:35 AM

I think it depends on the situation. If there is any sort of relationship betweet them, of course the man should be informed about the pregnancy and a discussion should take place. If he does not want the abortion to go ahead, the woman still may decide to go for it, but she should at least listen to his reasons for not wanting her to have an abortion.

 

In the case of rape, obviously it is entirely up to the woman to decided.

 

If the girl is below the age when consensual sex becomes legal the decision will not be hers alone. An abortion would require parental consent, but the boyfriend and his parents should also be consulted. If the boyfriend/lover is much older than the girl he should be prosecuted for having underage sex with her. Then it would be up to the girl and her family to decide whether or not to have an abortion.

 

After a drunken encounter or a one night stand it might not be so easy to involve the man in the decision. The woman should be able to make a decision on her own, but if she is able to contact the man he should at least be told about the pregnancy and he might want to support the child and have access, if she does not go ahead with the abortion.

 

In other words, I think there is no real answer to the question of whether or not the man should get a say in an abortion. I would hope that in many cases he would, and he might even change the woman's mind about an abortion. In other circumstances it may not be possible or desirable to tell the man about the pregnancy and to go ahead, if an abortion is really necessary.



#8 Dreek Lass

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:46 AM

I think it depends on the situation. If there is any sort of relationship betweet them, of course the man should be informed about the pregnancy and a discussion should take place. If he does not want the abortion to go ahead, the woman still may decide to go for it, but she should at least listen to his reasons for not wanting her to have an abortion.

 

In the case of rape, obviously it is entirely up to the woman to decided.

 

If the girl is below the age when consensual sex becomes legal the decision will not be hers alone. An abortion would require parental consent, but the boyfriend and his parents should also be consulted. If the boyfriend/lover is much older than the girl he should be prosecuted for having underage sex with her. Then it would be up to the girl and her family to decide whether or not to have an abortion.

 

After a drunken encounter or a one night stand it might not be so easy to involve the man in the decision. The woman should be able to make a decision on her own, but if she is able to contact the man he should at least be told about the pregnancy and he might want to support the child and have access, if she does not go ahead with the abortion.

 

In other words, I think there is no real answer to the question of whether or not the man should get a say in an abortion. I would hope that in many cases he would, and he might even change the woman's mind about an abortion. In other circumstances it may not be possible or desirable to tell the man about the pregnancy and to go ahead, if an abortion is really necessary.

 

I forgot to mention rape, but I completely second your notion there. A lot of people that I have spoken to about this predicament say that in that situation, it is completely the woman's choice, which it should be. But regardless of rape or not, I am pretty sure that it comes down to the woman's choice anyway. There is only so much talking a man can do before the woman makes up her own mind - with or without the man's influence.

 

I hadn't thought about the one night stand scenario, and a lot of people in that situation will just agree to get an abortion, or the man will be pulling for an abortion, whereas the woman will not want to abort the baby.



#9 Qwest

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

My opinion on this topic is a bit controversial and I'm interested in opinions.

 

Simply put, if a couple becomes pregnant and the woman wants to have the baby and the man doesn't I believe the woman should, at that point, have to sign a document releasing the man from any paternal or financial obligations and the man should have to sign one as well giving up all of his paternal rights. That document should then be upheld by state and federal law.

 

Hear me out -- Having a child is a huge decision. It's a life altering life long commitment, and a man should have more input than just giving his opinion. If a woman decides she is going to disregard the man's wishes and cannot be convinced otherwise that's OK. She has the right to do so. However, she should know that if she chooses to do so, she cannot obligate the man to that lifelong commitment with her. Forcing the man to be a father when he doesn't want to is no different than forcing a woman to carry a baby to term that she doesn't want.

 

What about just not getting pregnant in the first place? - Contrary to popular belief, accidents happen, ignorance happens. So not all babies are created on purpose. Telling young adults to only have sex for the purpose of having a child works about as well as the abstinence campaigns did when we were kids. So you can relieve yourself of that fantasy. Sex happens.

 

Thoughts?



#10 Dreek Lass

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:22 AM

My opinion on this topic is a bit controversial and I'm interested in opinions.

 

Simply put, if a couple becomes pregnant and the woman wants to have the baby and the man doesn't I believe the woman should, at that point, have to sign a document releasing the man from any paternal or financial obligations and the man should have to sign one as well giving up all of his paternal rights. That document should then be upheld by state and federal law.

 

Hear me out -- Having a child is a huge decision. It's a life altering life long commitment, and a man should have more input than just giving his opinion. If a woman decides she is going to disregard the man's wishes and cannot be convinced otherwise that's OK. She has the right to do so. However, she should know that if she chooses to do so, she cannot obligate the man to that lifelong commitment with her. Forcing the man to be a father when he doesn't want to is no different than forcing a woman to carry a baby to term that she doesn't want.

 

What about just not getting pregnant in the first place? - Contrary to popular belief, accidents happen, ignorance happens. So not all babies are created on purpose. Telling young adults to only have sex for the purpose of having a child works about as well as the abstinence campaigns did when we were kids. So you can relieve yourself of that fantasy. Sex happens.

 

Thoughts?

 

I don't feel like your thoughts are all that controversial to be honest. As for your second scenario, about the man not wanting the child but the woman still deciding to have said child, then the man should be released from having to do anything to help or support the baby, I disagree with it. But I DO see where you are coming from. The fact of the matter is, men do not have much say in this. If they accidentally get a girl pregnant, and the baby is proven to be his, then he has to pay child support and he is not just released from all obligation, unless the baby goes up for adoption. But then the mother would not allow that would she, so her and the father would still retain all parental rights.

 

I don't see what the fascination with sex is anyway. People need to stop it :p



#11 MercyL

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:55 AM

My opinion on this topic is a bit controversial and I'm interested in opinions.

 

Simply put, if a couple becomes pregnant and the woman wants to have the baby and the man doesn't I believe the woman should, at that point, have to sign a document releasing the man from any paternal or financial obligations and the man should have to sign one as well giving up all of his paternal rights. That document should then be upheld by state and federal law.

 

Hear me out -- Having a child is a huge decision. It's a life altering life long commitment, and a man should have more input than just giving his opinion. If a woman decides she is going to disregard the man's wishes and cannot be convinced otherwise that's OK. She has the right to do so. However, she should know that if she chooses to do so, she cannot obligate the man to that lifelong commitment with her. Forcing the man to be a father when he doesn't want to is no different than forcing a woman to carry a baby to term that she doesn't want.

 

What about just not getting pregnant in the first place? - Contrary to popular belief, accidents happen, ignorance happens. So not all babies are created on purpose. Telling young adults to only have sex for the purpose of having a child works about as well as the abstinence campaigns did when we were kids. So you can relieve yourself of that fantasy. Sex happens.

 

Thoughts?

 

All of these situations leave the fellow absolved of his first decision:

 

He didn't take steps to avoid ceating a pregnancy from his initial goal of "gettin' some", so he has decided to have sex without protecting himself. Men have more input than they deserve when they can simply walk away from a pregnancy, at any time, having complained that condoms are "too tight" and he can't "feel" as much when wearing them.

 

Until males have their own affective birth control options, beyond condoms and blaming women, their opinions about female health issues and abortions should be significantly limited, and men should not be allowed to legistlate the care of organs they are born without, beyond generally accepted patients' rights provided citizens of both genders. Once men bare the same burden of protecting themselves against unwanted and unplanned pregnancy and experience their own birth control failures, they'll give their input from the "doesn't affect me so it doesn't matter to me", Neanderthal section we had all but irradicated during the last 30 years or so.

 

There will be no signed statements absolving males from having dipped in an unprotected well with their unprotected wands, but there should be gags provided those needing their personal beliefs made law for the rest of us..



#12 mavp75

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:45 PM

Absolutely, it takes two people to create a pregnancy. So there is no reason why a man who participated in a consensual sexual  act should be denied a say. The real question is:

 

What does it matter what the man thinks?

 

Ultimately the decision rests with the women. Its her body so she gets ultimate say. (is that fair? I am not so sure but that's heading into very muddy water).

 

If you have a situation where both want to go ahead with the pregnancy then great, all is well and good.

If you have a situation where both want to terminate the pregnancy then that may be upsetting but a mutual course of action has been taken.

The real problem arises when both parties disagree. Where one wants to proceed and the other does not.

 

Scenario:

Lets say for argument sake that a couple have fallen pregnant. This is an unplanned pregnancy and the life circumstances of the couple are not supportive of continuing with the pregnancy.

 

The man say he does not want to continue with the pregnancy, his reasons are sound, the couple does not have a steady income, they are not married, they have not lived together, they have no family home but rent and so on. The circumstances surrounding this are not ideal and would impact negatively on the couples life moving forward.

 

It also means the child if born would not be given the best chance to thrive.

 

The women, however, although agrees the timing isn't great says she will continue no matter what, essentially, ignoring the man's wishes and concerns and doing what she believes only - essentially dis-empowering the man from his life choices. At this point a sense of helplessness would overwhelm the man as his self determination rights have been muted.

 

Now, I believe that termination is a legitimate, reproductive choice, so if the man recommends this, he is taking responsibility by recommending this course of action. HE is not being selfish he is merely expressing his right to a legitimate choice, this is not the easy choice and there are philosophical differences regarding this.

 

The women too has a right to continue with the pregnancy if she wishes that is her legitimate choice too.

 

What next?:

 

If the man loves the women, then they will probably work something out and make it work.

 

If there is doubt, i believe the man in this scenario should be able to walk away from the situation. He has claimed responsibility by suggesting a course of action which is legitimate and legal in most parts of the world. The women has rejected this course of action, choosing her own path. The man should then have the right to have on the birth certificate "father unknown" and the women, as she has now acted unilaterally must agree to this. 

 

A women should not ignore a legitimate course of action, take her own path and then place the consequences and resulting responsibilities onto another who had an alternative course of action.

 

This way the women takes FULL responsibility for her choice and the man also takes FULL responsibility by denying paternity which means forgoing access and future contact.

 

Termination:

 

Termination is a legitimate reproductive choice for both men and women, it should not be demonized and couples, women should not be made to feel guilty for making this choice. Religious extremists or absolutists need to move into the real world on this issue. Of course, termination should not be a front line contraceptive choice, it is a last resort when things go wrong.

 

That's Fair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#13 Draggy

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:41 AM

I don't know about the state you all live in but in my state there is such a thing as "dead beat Dad's" it's called.  A woman may agree at the time to go ahead and have her child and take care of it on her own, but can she?   Time passes and circumstances happen and she seeks state assistance of one kind or another.  So the state wants the name of the father of the child.  She has to give the name before she can get assistance.  She gives the name and then the state goes after the father of the child as a Dead Beat Dad.  How ever many years have passed that Dad has to pay child care based on his income.  I have known of some Dad's who did not know they even had a child and have had to pony up 1000s of bucks in one payment then make payments until the child is 18.

 

You want to say pregnancy happens?   Here we are in the 21st Century and pregnancy just happens?  We have the day after pill and pregnancy happens?   Free birth control at Planned Parenthood clinics across the country and pregnancy happens?  This is what is wrong with our society.  We are so ill informed. 



#14 mavp75

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:23 PM

I don't know about the state you all live in but in my state there is such a thing as "dead beat Dad's" it's called.  

 

We have this term in Australia; "Dead Beat Dad" - I think it is a disgusting term and so demeaning. There are many 'dads' who may live with their children and work but are terrible role models for their children, but they are not labelled as such. The worst thing about this term is it reduces the father role to one of mere financial worth, therefore in my opinion diminishing the role of fatherhood all over the world.

 

 



#15 Draggy

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:20 AM

The sad thing is when a Dad doesn't even know he's a Dad and is labeled as such.  Course these men pay to have DNA done to prove one way or another but it's usually as the mother says he is the Dad.    And the term Dead Beat Dad comes from so many Dad's who are supposed to be paying child support from divorce aren't paying what the courts have required they pay.  So every man, who has a child and not paying is labeled a "Dead Beat Dad" 

I agree it's not a very nice term.



#16 philosoraptor

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:59 AM

 

 

You want to say pregnancy happens?   Here we are in the 21st Century and pregnancy just happens?  We have the day after pill and pregnancy happens?   Free birth control at Planned Parenthood clinics across the country and pregnancy happens?  This is what is wrong with our society.  We are so ill informed. 

Yes, pregnancy happen. Birth controls may fail, but more importantly, people may not have access to birth control. And many people still believe abstinence only education is the way to go rather than a comprehensive sex ed.  BTW are you pro planned parenthood, drags? 



#17 Draggy

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:22 PM

I believe kids need to be educated in how to prevent pregnancy.  Not be too quick to jump into bed and have sex.  Unwanted pregnancies are ridiculous this day and age.    We aren't living in our parents age we are living in the supposedly modern age and our kids need to be prepared.  And that preparation needs to happen at home and in school.  It's actually all about parenting. 

 

Leaving everything up to the schools is not working.  



#18 Draggy

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:26 PM

And another thing phil.  I don't have any girls but if I did, I would make sure she was protected.   I am not foolish enough to think my kid is not going to go out and have sex.  Boy or girl they will have sex at one point in their lives, hopefully not when they are in HS but that's a chance and I'm not one for taking chances.  

 

Someone told me a long time ago if I could get my kids to 18 without any "accidents" I had accomplished a great feat.  And so far....I'm winning that battle. 



#19 philosoraptor

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:07 PM

I believe kids need to be educated in how to prevent pregnancy.  Not be too quick to jump into bed and have sex.  Unwanted pregnancies are ridiculous this day and age.    We aren't living in our parents age we are living in the supposedly modern age and our kids need to be prepared.  And that preparation needs to happen at home and in school.  It's actually all about parenting. 

 

Leaving everything up to the schools is not working.  

Who educates kids to be too quick to jump into bed and have sex? What a ridiculous stereotyping. Yes, tell that to the abstinence only education lot. Saying "this day and age" doesn't mean squat, we are talking about a place where 50%+ people believe in creationism or intelligent design. Being technologically progressive doesn't make people being willfully ignorant. And a lot of it should be part of curricula, as I would assume academically teaching the much necessary sex ed from an objective viewpoint would be more prodcutive anyday.



#20 philosoraptor

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:10 PM

And another thing phil.  I don't have any girls but if I did, I would make sure she was protected.   I am not foolish enough to think my kid is not going to go out and have sex.  Boy or girl they will have sex at one point in their lives, hopefully not when they are in HS but that's a chance and I'm not one for taking chances.  

 

Someone told me a long time ago if I could get my kids to 18 without any "accidents" I had accomplished a great feat.  And so far....I'm winning that battle. 

Well good on you then, that's what people ought to do. Teaching them about birth control really is the rational solution to lowering the abortion rates. As I always say, except maybe some women who may get pleasure out of having an invasive procedure, MOST women wouldn't want to go through an otherwise traumatic procedure, physically or mentally. It's a complex issue, but it's all about weighing pros vs cons.







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